Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver.

[PlanetHendrix]

I've always suspected you don't read well and this post proves it. Nearly all that has been discussed in the last 2 pages (at least) has been about possible societal causes such as drugs, violence in media and mental illness. The only one not contributing anything at this point except more whining about how people can't discuss the issues without becoming "polarized" seems to be you.

X, do you really think this type of word usage helps in the conversation? By all means use what words you want but think about the level you set or bring yourself down too. We can all be better than this but first we must raise the level of the conversation.

[gaphugs]

his constant attacks and posting of troll faces etc show the level of his intelligence. I'm fine with that but it's childish and embarrassing from a an adult.

[PlanetHendrix]

his constant attacks and posting of troll faces etc show the level of his intelligence. I'm fine with that but it's childish and embarrassing from a an adult.

Gap, you don't help the situation. I understand that you may be angered by what X does but you also don't help elevate the conversation.

[gaphugs]

I was actually trying to steer the thread in a more constructive direction. Spec has a them and US attitude which can't be penetrated. But I'm cool with that.

[PlanetHendrix]

I was actually trying to steer the thread in a more constructive direction. Spec has a them and US attitude which can't be penetrated. But I'm cool with that.

I understand that but:

That's it.. barely an argument about responsibility, education, parental control, societal issues, poverty, wealth, depression, isolation, acceptance etc.. Just the same old shit.... polarised, stubborn, entrenched, loyalist crappy opinion

That last part really isn't the best way to do that. But to help change it myself.

There is something to be said about coverage. I lived in Atlanta for a while and got a good understanding of what happens down there. It is really a peaceful place but the coverage that it gets makes it seem like a violent drug infested area (which is funny since CNN is based out of Atlanta). It doesn't mean things don't happen down there but it does mean that the violence gets covered too much.
That covers the why America.
On the why that guy. I am not sure we will ever know, but if we do look at all the examples we can see that there is no single cause that covers them all other than mental illness. I doubt it is a lack of education since at least 3 of the major killings I can think of were caused by very intelligent people. I am still working on this thought process so it is coming out a little broken so I will add more later.

[gaphugs]

if something happens in Dublin and people refer to it happening in Ireland I wouldn't get my knickers in a twist.. that being said and a line drawn under it.. it is hard to answer why.

This crime doesnt conform to the norms. As you say, he was intelligent, has a reasonable back ground, no criminal record etc. The relative ease in access to guns has to be a factor but that doesn't answer why. Most of us are nuts or know someone with mental health issues. However, mass murder is a huge leap up from that. We need to talk about Kevin is a very good book and film and perhaps goes some way to helping one understand.

[PlanetHendrix]

if something happens in Dublin and people refer to it happening in Ireland I wouldn't get my knickers in a twist.. that being said and a line drawn under it.. it is hard to answer why.

This crime doesnt conform to the norms. As you say, he was intelligent, has a reasonable back ground, no criminal record etc. The relative ease in access to guns has to be a factor but that doesn't answer why. Most of us are nuts or know someone with mental health issues. However, mass murder is a huge leap up from that. We need to talk about Kevin is a very good book and film and perhaps goes some way to helping one understand.

I have questioned what does send someone over the edge myself. I have asked what is the difference between me and say someone like John Hinkley Jr. or Mark David Chapman. All three have been obsessed but only one realized it before it became a major problem. I think one difference is isolation. This may be one thing that helps answer other questions as many of the worst kinds of tragedies has the word isolated in it. Whether self or by society it is there. It may be that there is no-one for these people to have ask them the most important questions. Why. Not the why that is asked after by the why that is asked before. The why that must be answered when figuring out your own reasoning. Maybe the best thing to help stop these things are friends.

[X-Spectre]

X, do you really think this type of word usage helps in the conversation? By all means use what words you want but think about the level you set or bring yourself down too. We can all be better than this but first we must raise the level of the conversation.

I'm not even going to reply to the person in question (it does no good and simply causes agite') and if you DON'T think his post which prompted the one of mine you are quoting is simply inflammatory and in no way adds to the conversation then we'll just have to agree to disagree. To answer you, go back and look at the last 2 pages of posts as I suggested, the ONLY things I posted on were in regards to social issues that might have contributed to the WHY of the shooting. And I daresay that I have been less voiciferous than some about gun rights in this thread, I very clearly stated my position and left it at that, I didn't argue or become heated or disrespectful to anyone nor did I take an "us VS them" attitude.

Oh, and from page 3 here's a little gem you didn't seem to find a need to attack as 'unhelpful'...

Bottom line is this, countries with liberal gun laws have a far greater amount of these kind of crimes. It's not just the US in case people like spec have a grade 3 shit attack in their knickers,other counties have had similar situations. But none on the scale of America.

[PlanetHendrix]

I'm not even going to reply to the person in question (it does no good and simply causes agite') and if you DON'T think his post which prompted the one of mine you are quoting is simply inflammatory and in no way adds to the conversation then we'll just have to agree to disagree. To answer you, go back and look at the last 2 pages of posts as I suggested, the ONLY things I posted on were in regards to social issues that might have contributed to the WHY of the shooting. And I daresay that I have been less voiciferous than some about gun rights in this thread, I very clearly stated my position and left it at that, I didn't argue or become heated or disrespectful to anyone nor did I take an "us VS them" attitude.

And I respect that but I wasn't referring to the other pages. I was just making a commentary on many of your posts to Gaps and if you noticed I told Gap that he is not helping either. I don't mean to offend but if I do then it is a side affect of being truthful. I think you are very intelligent but you do let your anger take over at the wrong times. You can be better then the name calling you have a small tendency to do. I wish to keep all discussion open so I leave say again that you use what words you wish.

[Lirva_Engival]

It's been cutting and pasting news stories, the constitution and gun laws. That's it.. barely an argument about responsibility, education, parental control, societal issues, poverty, wealth, depression, isolation, acceptance etc.. Just the same old shit.... polarised, stubborn, entrenched, loyalist crappy opinion

fyi the original post was/is a news story nothing more
if it spins off into a general discussion/argument - "same old shit" as you put it - then so be it
it's the nature of the beast...this is a forum for heavens sake!
perhaps a new thread "Gun crime in the US -discuss" would be more in your favour?
if so, go ahead and do it, please....

btw a previous post of mine (which you claimed was irrelevant to this thread) was not intended
to be a direct reply to the OP but was, in fact, a response to something Big Bamboo said at the end
of one of his posts....

You can Keep your Firearms, It makes no difference to me I'm fine plodding along in a country that is thankful to be one of the most diverse liberated country's in the World. Without the need for the 2nd amendment ...

BB implies here that everything is hunky dory in the UK and is somehow on a higher moral plane than the US
(because we don't have firearms/2nd Amendment etc)
my post was to prove that in the world of violent crime the UK has nothing to be proud about

clearly you didn't get it....

[Big Bamboo!]

LE! I'm not responsible for how you interpret what I say!
How dare you put forward that I ilude to the UK is on a higher moral plane than the US!
It your constant berating of the UK that gives me the hump. In the 2012 Olyimpics thread every post you make is negative and disrespectful. If its so bad here move! It's simple!
I was born and grown on council estates (projects) in south London stockwell Brixton Norwood Peckham.
They all have there fair problems when it comes to gun crime and poverty.
But in no way is it at the same level of the US! All figures and research point to that. Just because you have some personal axe to grind you let it cloud your judgement. You even quote teenage pregnancy! What the Hell does that have to do with the massacre that took place in Denver? You have a problem! Seriously!
You are Constantly point scoring without contributing to the conversation.. The amount of mass gun crime in the US is disproportionate to the rest of the world surly thats a given? That's not taking into consideration the amount of people killed or wounded in drive by shootings and gang shootings. It's got to be about the easy availability of guns! And Does that contribute to the amount of gun crime in the US? In my oppinion it's a resounding Yes! If people are not willing to even look at the problem and find a solution then so be it! It does not affect me in the slightest because the Isle of Wight is as far away from mass gun crime as Rodeo Drive is from poverty!
Now I will leave you to read your daily mail while cursing your luck you born in such a vile country!

[S-type]

I've been tempted to close this thread before because it became somewhat repetitive a while back, but at least the instances of it becoming personal have been few and far between.
Don't spoil that now!

[Lirva_Engival]

LE! I'm not responsible for how you interpret what I say!
How dare you put forward that I ilude to the UK is on a higher moral plane than the US!
It your constant berating of the UK that gives me the hump. In the 2012 Olyimpics thread every post you make is negative and disrespectful.

don't shoot the messenger...

agreed i am not a fan of London 2012
but my posts in the Olympics thread are mainly links and pics from the national press...
go to the forums of the national press - both right wing and left - and you will
find a great deal of criticism about this event

my posts represent the other side of the coin....don't we have a right to be heard too?

If its so bad here move! It's simple!

it's not that simple...i wish it were!
unlike the UK, the US does not have an open door policy re immigration
although i am legally married to an American citizen in a civil partnership
it doesn't give me settlement rights in the USA and even if it did, i wouldn't
be able to afford the healthcare costs over there - plus there are a few other "issues"
which would make a move at this point in time out of the question

btw i am not anti-British...in fact, i am proud of my English roots
please note i say "roots"
i am definitely not proud of the way the country is going
if you have a problem with that, then you have a problem
and i will throw your opening statement back at you...

"BB! I'm not responsible for how you interpret what I say!"


have a nice day

[S-type]

That's enough! The London Olympics 2012 or the socio-economic state of the UK are completely off-topic!

Thread closed!