DEBATE Allison Mack alleged to be second in command of a violent sex cult

The kids are good looking.

-1800fordfs 28/04/2018

 

Nothing wrong with good-looking kids. Most people I know in the real world say that with no issues.
I've long held that a young person can be good looking without any sexual connotation whatsoever.

Any problem with that?

 

Ohh......kay. But have you ever heard a parent (or grandparent) call their kidlet "fugly"? Kids are like puppies- there really are very few that aren't cute in some fashion. Anything outside of that innocent statement is strictly in your own mind, and best left there.

 

Allison takes the credit for the branding

https://www.thewrap.com/smallville-star-allison-mack-claims-credit-branding-women-nxivm-sex-cult/

 

Well, no way to claim innocence now since she says herself that she branded women. Lock her up

 

Man she was completely brainwashed

 

Such a shame too.

 

More precisely, she takes credit for introducing the idea of them voluntarily getting branded.

Here's how it appeared in the NYT article that site claimed to be citing:

She's talking about doing this to herself.

For the record, I'm not defending anyone nor making any claim about what happened here. That cult sounds ridiculously suspicious. However, people are cherry-picking bits and pieces and presenting them as fact just to leap onto the "lock her up forever - no need for an investigation" bandwagon. Get some critical thinking skills, everyone. They're pretty useful...

 

I have a hard time believing that. She's an intelligent person and knew right from wrong. She was presented with choices along the way and for reasons she alone knows, she chose the wrong path. I have no sympathy for her. Even all of the little Scientology twerps know how stupid they are but they keep giving them their money for one reason or another. I don't believe in brainwashing.

 

I've wondered about this, will scientology ever suffer the same fate as this cult has, or are the people involved in it too powerful to let that happen?

 

Brainwashing - albeit by different names - is indisputably a thing. Its not a case of quasi-hypnotising people into being obedient little slaves, but it's every bit as insidious and abusive. Read a psychology journal sometime, particularly studies about things like conformity bias. Look into how psychologists and sociologists have researched other cults, especially Jonestown.

Not saying this is applicable to Mack, though.

 

Thing about cults is that they take vulnerable people and eventually make them dependent on the cult.

It's how the so-called Islamic State recruit. Take young kids who feel outcast, make them part of the group, shower them with compliments until they feel part of a "family" and by then, it's too late and they'll do anything for those they see as "their people".

 

I've seen first hand how easy it is for sensible, intelligent people to lose their minds and become sheep in a cult...

 

It's worse than that: they often take people who aren't vulnerable and turn them into vulnerable members who are wholly dependent on the cult. That's exactly what happened with Jim Jones - he took in seemingly-happy families and set about breaking them up so they were less connected to their families and more dependent on him. Things like encouraging spouses to fuck other people helps to break those emotional bonds, isolating them and making him seem more compelling as an ever-present figure.

 

You see it with that QAnon nonsense that's been around since last September, too. Vaguely worded "drops" taking bits from the news media and having the followers "interpret" them, then promising things like "Hillary Clinton arrested and sent to Gitmo" on specific dates, which always change.

Whole thing's a LARP but there are genuine people (from late teens to the elderly) buying into it and threatening harm to those they perceive as enemies, while also calling for the deaths of Clinton and Obama and claiming that Trump was sent by God to save America. A lot of their comments are about how their friends and families are distancing themselves from them because they keep talking about all this stuff and claiming "they'll come running to me when it all goes down".

So sad to see.

 

I just want to point out that when I say lock her up, I don't mean "To hell with a trial, let's just go with public opinion and punish her the most because she is the most well-known". She's due for a trial where it can all come out and be presented, and she is far from the only one who should face that. But it is known she was basically second-in-command in this cult, there are already statements from those who had escaped about her proud involvement in the more brutal aspects of this cult. Is she a victim? No IMO. The idea that she was brainwashed to do this is complete crap. Brainwashing only brings out a persons true nature and base desires as far as I am concerned; if they wind up being a cold and vicious monster of a person then that was already in them, it just got unlocked by another person which in this case was that Reneire character. I'm getting out of this conversation until there are more developments, if others want to debate and argue then more power to them. I just don't want to have my time on here be devoted to debate of very serious subjects like this, but as someone who had been hearing about this long before it was posted on here and was a fan of hers and others that had been involved at some point I had the urge to post my 2 cents. I don't begrudge anyone their opinion on this mess regardless of what it is.

 

Trials exist to find out if all the stuff you just mentioned are actually true, so you are saying "lock her up without due process" by simply accepting the word of those you would like to be correct.

As for "Brainwashing only brings out a persons true nature and base desires as far as I am concerned", sorry, mate, but this instantly proves that you have no valid opinion on this matter. Try looking up the concepts that a couple of us have been mentioning and you'd quickly find out that people can be coerced into doing things that they would never have done without that coercion.

Jim Jones convinced hundreds of parents to willingly murder their children. Either you think he chanced upon the tiny number of people who have a base desire to kill their kids or this sentiment is extremely common and he couldn't really miss, because everyone at Jonestown did it. Darwinian evolution alone rules out the latter, and probability rules out the former.

In fact, you yourself stand as a great example of how people can be persuaded to do something in this manner. A couple of unverifiable reports had convinced you that everything in this case was true, so you committed to the idea of punishing those claimed to be involved before any trial had even begun. You've already been conditioned to see Mack in particular as guilty, despite you having no evidence of that.

 

I'm going to be completely honest with you. When you write posts like this, you come off as having a near sociopathic lack of empathy for the real victims of this organization. Those who were exploited, manipulated and literally branded as slaves by Keith Raniere and Allison Mack. The world won't descend into anarchy and mob rule if you allow yourself to have a visceral, emotional reaction to that. I promise.

 

The problem there is twofold. Firstly, I have in no way negated what any victims may have undergone as members of this cult. That's just you reading things that simply are not there. Secondly, by continuing to insist that they were "literally branded as slaves" you are leaping to a conclusion based on nothing whatsoever. Mack herself had previously gone on record stating that she suggested branding for herself as a way to show greater commitment than a tattoo, which she saw as entirely trivial.

I have never argued for Mack's innocence. That I have criticised people for mindlessly presuming that she is guilty and literally stated that she should be punished for this without ever standing trial is not "sociopathic". On the contrary, I am arguing against those who are showing significant signs of psychopathy, which is the ultimate root of sociopathy.

I can be empathetic to the alleged victims without demanding that the accused perpetrators suffer capital punishment without a trial. The only reason I haven't commented on the victims is because this thread is about Mack and her potential involvement, not the veracity of the victims' statements. I'd appreciate it if you could refrain from putting words into my mouth in future.

If you want to ensure that the focus is on the actual victims then you need to stop trying to create new victims, because the "guilty until proven otherwise" attitude that people seem to have adopted for Mack is highly reminiscent of the Amanda Knox case. In that instance, Meredith Kercher was the real victim, but political pressure, media pressure, public opinion and a disgraceful trial and imprisonment resulted in Knox and Solicito becoming victims too, taking the focus away from the young woman who was murdered and the parents who lost their daughter. Likewise, if you want the victims of Raniere's own little Jonestown to get the attention and justice they deserve then you need to refrain from actively trying to prejudice against those who are on trial. Let the evidence speak for itself.