The Sancho And Juicehead666 Random Chat Thread!

.40 S&W - moving up a level

 

wtf!

that's not a back-up firearm, that's a combat firearm man.

 

nope it's a wee one - the OTHER .40 is my main - or of course there's the rifle in the car...

 

well at least you don't have to worry about carrying different amo. if the two guns are the same size handle they might even use the same size clip.

But regardless i always thought a back-up firearm is something that is highly concealable. i have a 22 tomcat from baretta, great little point and shoot but definately not back-up worthy for anything. I do like my 9mm though.

 

exactly the reason I went with this - I can use the same mags as my full size
and yes, you have a good basic concept of how it works in that one sentence - anytime you're looking it's that compromise between size/concealability & power. This one is small enough to work in an ankle rig for work, and hide easily off work without much effort.

see, THIS subject I know as well as you can ID models from one picture!

 

lol yeah, i figure you depend it upon your life to know this stuff. Just that i have yet to see a handgun that has that large a caliber and concealable within an ankle harness. I have seen some 9mm that are pretty small but my idea of concealability is something i can cover with the palm of my hand.

 

Well a lot depends on your frame/size & how you choose to dress - compromises like anything else. This is a Glock 27, which works ok for my size in an ankle, but for someone smaller yes they might have a problem. I'm also limited by work rules on what size I can go - there are some great .22's in the range you discuss, but they aren't "allowed" so not an option - they work great for a pocket pistol or similar use though.

 

well i figure a 22 is against the rules simply because of it's inability to stop people dead in their tracks. a 22 has only a 55% one shot stop ratio. but a 9mm i would think would be a better option for me with my slightly smaller frame.

 

(SOAPBOX ALERT)

Well #1 - the whole 1 shot stop thing is a greatly overused myth - handgun rounds in general don't have near the stopping power of rifle rounds due to simple physics (mass times velocity squared) - the simple fact is, should you be in a situation to use one of whatever nature, you shoot til the threat is gone - whether that is one round, ten or one hundred - people get all caught up in the whole "magic bullet" concept. Movies, video games etc don't help - they have indoctrinated everyone into the myth that someone gets shot, goes flying backwards flipping over twice, and is DRT with nothing else going on - it simply doesn't work that way in the real world.

#2 - the .22 is a perfectly capable round in the right situation, as is the 9mm, .40, .45 or whatever - SHOT PLACEMENT is the key - I guarantee you that if I put two-four rounds in the brain pan, the person involved isn't going to sit there and argue caliber with me afterwards.... A number of agencies and organizations have used the .22 with great effect throughout the years, for a ton of reasons I could go into but this is a smut board, not a gun one! Yes, the 9mm is a more powerful option for you with your frame, but not necessarily a better one always - it's what you're comfortable with. Hell, a 12 guage is a great option - but again not necessarily the best. I'd rather run into a guy carrying a .44 mag who can't shoot the damned thing than a grandma who can pick off flies with her .22 any day of the week...

guess the best way I can say it is a quote from "Ronin" (the technical advisor on this one had enough real world experience to make a number of us smile....) - "Tools in a tool box" - you pick what's right for the job & what works for you.

rant off!

and as for the rules we face - it's actually for the very silly (in my books at least) reason that, in order to keep certain national accredidations & little plaques we can put on our walls & brag about... our agency can't let people use anything they don't have a trained armorer on the staff for - so we get limited in variety, caliber etc....

the bean counters win again.

 

Your statement about shot placement is true, but a study i ready about the percentage of a 1 stop shot being done by a 22 cal, vs. all other bullet types does show that a 45 or a 40 is more lethal than a 22. A 44 mag is not practical simply because of the fact it recoils to much for second shot control. Unless you have one with a 8.5 inch barrel like mine does. But that adds for a long cumbersome barrel and way to much added weight.

But you guys are taught to shoot with a triple tap and assess the threat and tap again if it presists. But i am glad the 40 cal is getting more use now than before when the military first adopted the 9mm. Every police department took to it and now we find out it doesn't have the same stopping power as a 40 or a 45. Tests have been shown that a 40 is just as lethal as a 45. but the 9mm's i was told can be deflected off a windshield.

 

Yes round for round, the bigger bullet tends to win - wasn't arguing that point - my observation is that simply too many people think one bullet alone does the job, which is rarely true in any caliber with the exception of sniper shots.

And actually it all depends on where you are trained - I've been fortunate with my background to have a good number of instructors who knew their shit - we don't train to a specific "you shoot this many times, check, and then shoot again" - it's just a you engage the threat until it is not a threat anymore. Too many places were teaching the 2 or 3 round strings & then assess, and when it hit real world people were getting killed.

As for the 9mm - it can work quite well (trust me, I used one overseas for 14 years and still have that pistol with no complaints) - the .40 does edge it in some areas as we have both pointed out, but with teh right ammo it is more than capable of doing the job. The other issue you look at is ammo availability - .40 is a very American round, so I have no problems here - were I to be back overseas I would be back to 9mm simply due to the availability everywhere. Same reason I'd play with an AK again in certain areas - because I know I can get ammo, mags & parts for it if need be.

To comment on your other observation - windshields & glass in general can do funny things to rounds - you have issues of movement, angle of the glass, shatter resistance in general etc - side windows work much better if faced with that sort of choice.

sorry amigo, you can get me going for hours on this one!

 

I don't have issues with talking about firearms. I own over a dozen of them (all mainly hunting purposes) with the rare exception of my 22, 9mm, and 45. All the other rounds including my 357, 44 and rifle rounds i load myself. Balisstics i know a bit about, along with what they are capable in the field, i am just not as informed about their civilian applications since i don't shot people. Although i do sleep with a loaded 12 gauge deadbolted to a stud in my bedroom in case there is somebody who tries to break in.

 

We'll have to continue this tomorrow Azz - definitely enjoying the exchange, but I must get to bed if I'm going to be up on time tomorrow. Catch you later.

 

have a nice night, i am off to bed myself. we will carry on with this again i am sure.

 

yeah, i'm here. whats up tai?

 

i am on my way to get food as well. i will cya later tai

 

Mmmmm beer and spicy summer sausage - THAT's a late night snack!